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Roy's Training Improvement Café

In Roy&#039;s Training Improvement Café, Roy de Vries, Learning Innovator at aNewSpring, explores how people really learn and what we, as training experts, can learn from that to keep improving our training.In this fourth episode of the Training Improvement Café, Roy talks with Dirk Bannenberg💡 Spoiler alert: change doesn&#039;t happen from one day on another.<h2>Watch the full episode below</h2>Just hit &#039;play&#039; or scroll down for the show notes and the full transcript.

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Show notes

Episode 04 – Dirk Bannenberg on Training for real changeIn this episode of the Training Improvement Café, Roy sits down with Dirk Bannenberg, co-founder of Nobi Learning and a seasoned trainer who’s worked with some of the biggest training providers in The Netherlands. Together, they explore how to turn training from a one-off event into a catalyst for lasting behaviour change.💡 Spoiler alert: Real change starts before the training day…and continues long after.About DirkDirk Bannenberg is co-founder of Nobi Learning and an experienced trainer with a background in teaching, corporate training, and change management. Passionate about making training meaningful, he combines adult learning, leadership, and change management principles to help organisations achieve lasting behavioural change.What you&#039;ll learn in this episode<ul><li>Why friction and discomfort in training can actually be a good sign</li><li>How to uncover the “question behind the question” when clients ask for training</li><li>Practical nudges that make behaviour change stick (from bathroom stickers to handwritten notes)</li><li>Why training is more like a campaign than a one-day event</li><li>How to keep participants motivated long after the training ends</li><li>The power of the ADKAR change model (Awareness, Desire, Knowledge, Ability, Reinforcement)</li><li>Why managerial support and feedback are non-negotiable for real transfer</li><li>What Dirk learned from change thinker Thijs Homan about culture and “petri dishes”</li></ul>Resources &amp; inspiration<ul><li><a href="https://www.prosci.com/blog/adkar-model">ADKAR change model</a></li><li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/thijs-homan-95a3b146/?originalSubdomain=nl">Thijs Homan</a> (organisational culture)</li><li><a href="https://nobilearning.nl/">Nobi Learning</a></li></ul>Quick tips to apply right away<ul><li>Add small nudges before and after training (emails, reminders, stickers, handwritten notes).</li><li>Frame training as a campaign: build anticipation, involvement, and follow-up.</li><li>Ask participants: “When will this day be a success for you?” and use their answers.</li><li>Use the “Better Not” exercise to surface resistance to new behaviours.</li><li>Don’t shy away from feedback when attempts at new behaviour fail. It fuels growth.</li></ul>Episode highlights[00:01:00] – Why intrinsic motivation is non-negotiable for real behaviour change.[00:04:59] – Uncovering the real learning need behind client requests.[00:08:01] – The challenge of involving managers and starting with nudges.[00:10:50] – From bathroom stickers to pre-training mail packages: creative nudges that stick.[00:14:45] – The “Better Not” exercise to surface resistance and spark reflection.[00:16:37] – Why managers must give feedback—even when it feels uncomfortable.[00:20:02] – Designing impactful learning experiences on limited budgets.[00:22:04] – Applying the ADKAR change model to training.[00:25:32] – Why reinforcement at 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months really matters.[00:26:00] – Petri dishes of meaning: how real change happens at the coffee machine.Listen to the full episode▶️ <a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/6mfcEHsHDemtI1ZfPieXjD?si=d13b241e890d4401">Watch or listen on Spotify</a>▶️ <a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/train-for-real-change-with-dirk-bannenberg/id1812628730?i=1000724686063">Listen on Apple Podcasts</a>💬 We’d love your feedback!What did you think of the episode? Share your thoughts with <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/roy-de-vries-/">Roy</a> or <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/dirkbannenberg/">Dirk</a> via LinkedIn.📣 Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with fellow L&amp;D pros who care about making learning stick.

Also watch Episode 03 about learning for marketing

Full transcript

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Roy de Vries

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Article

In this episode, Roy and Dirk explore how people really learn and what we can learn from that to keep improving our training.

Train for real change with Dirk Bannenberg

Training Improvement Café - Episode 04: Train for real change with Dirk Bannenberg

training improvement

Featured Feature

Beat your blank canvas fear: meet your new AI co-designerIn this episode of Featured Feature, Roy introduces the Learning Journey Advisor - our brand-new AI-powered assistant that helps you get from zero to a first course structure in no time. Whether you&#039;re starting from scratch or just need a nudge in the right direction, this smart tool will help you get started creating impactful learning journeys, step by step.👇 Watch the video to see how it works and how to get started.

Video

Featured Feature: Learning Journey Advisor

<h2>Full transcript</h2> Hi, my name is Roy de Vries, Learning Innovator at aNewSpring. In today&#039;s Featured Feature, I&#039;d like to introduce you our newest AI powered feature: the Learning Journey Advisor. I&#039;ll show you where you can find it, which input you can give, and how you can go from zero to a template in just minutes.On the templates page, you&#039;ll find an extra button next to &quot;+ TEMPLATE&quot;. It&#039;s the &quot;AI ADVICE&quot; button. If you click it, it will take you to the page where you can generate template advice with AI. There&#039;s a couple of things you can add to make the advice as personalised as possible. Start off with your topic. In this case, I&#039;ll create a course about &quot;Generative AI for Learning Designers&quot;.I enter the learning objectives that are tied to this course. For example, identifying practical use cases of gen AI and in the &quot;People&quot; section, I select the level of my target audience, whether we have instructors available and if it&#039;s an online or a blended course with offline sessions. Lastly, I use the details field to input extra instructions for the advice with, for example, some text on how I think the course should roughly look like.After that, I&#039;ll click on &quot;GENERATE ADVICE&quot;. The system will start loading and thinking and putting your learning journey together. In the backend, there is a big prompt that consists of a lot of didactic tools, learning models, and all other kinds of information that structure and help to create the course, the outline that you need for your training.So while it&#039;s loading, there we go. You can see the advice, a lot of lessons, a lot of reflection activities. And at the bottom I can give extra input, like &quot;Make it more varied&quot;. And if you then click refine advice, the AI will start to think again. The more specific you are there, the better it will refine based on your wishes.So let me give another minute to think about it, to see what there&#039;s left to improve.And there we go. The new advice has been generated. When you are happy, you can scroll down and click on &quot;CREATE TEMPLATE&quot;. It will show you a notification with a link, and if you click on that link, you will automatically be taken to your newly generated template. From there, it&#039;s up to you. You are the expert. So make sure to fill this course with the content that is relevant to your target audience and to your context.I hope this video gets you excited to start using our Learning Journey Advisor. Thank you for watching and have a great time generating impactful learning journeys.

Want to discover more features?

Beat your blank canvas fear with our new AI co-designer. Roy will show you how this smart tool will help you get started creating impactful learning journeys, step by step.

Featured Featured: The Learning Journey Advisor

Featured Feature: The Learning Journey Advisor

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features

Picture this: you’re sitting behind your desk on a cold, dark evening. Wires snake across the surface, connecting all kinds of devices to a single overworked power outlet. Outside, the wind howls and rain lashes against the window.A cold cup of coffee sits untouched next to your keyboard, which hasn’t seen action in a while. The glow of your computer screen lights up the room with a harsh, sterile white. On it: a blank document. A single cursor blinks in the emptiness, silently urging you to begin, waiting for your thoughts to take the wheel.If this scene feels familiar, you’ve probably faced it yourself: blank canvas fear.You need to create something from scratch, a story, an outline, an email, and you just don’t know where to begin.So the cursor keeps blinking. And blinking. And somehow, it’s getting on your nerves more than you&#039;d like to admit.

When AI entered the chat

<h3>When AI entered the chat</h3>As you might know, starting a new template can be quite daunting. Especially if you haven’t used a learning platform before, or only just for a while. Where do you start? What activities do you select? And how do you name all these blocks and activities? To be fair, creating templates is one of the most challenging parts of using the aNewSpring-platform, because there is no specific recipe that suits your unique situation. We only provide the toolbox. You, as an author bring your expertise and insights for the content.But what if we could help you with that as well? What if we have found a way to create the right recipe, based on your exact needs and your unique situation?Not so long ago that seemed like science fiction, but with the rise of generative AI we were able to make it a reality.So, allow us to introduce our newest AI-feature: the Learning Journey Advisor.

How does it work?

<h3>How does it work?</h3>It&#039;s pretty straightforward: just enter your enter your topic, learning objectives and audience details, and the Learning Journey Advisor will suggest a detailed outline of specific blocks and relevant activities within that block. All tailored to what you think it should look like, and all while taking the right didactic approach into account. The more specific you are, the better it aligns with your needs.If AI prompting AI is not your thing, don&#039;t worry, all advanced prompting happens under the hood, we just include your input in it. If you want you can still add extra instructions, but you don&#039;t have to.

In this Featured Feature video, you’ll see how, with just a few inputs, you can go from nothing to a complete template structure in minutes.

How it works, step by step

No time to watch? Here’s a quick summary:<ol start="1"><li>Go to the Templates page and click “AI Advice”</li><li>Enter your topic, learning objectives and audience details</li><li>Click “Generate advice”</li><li>Refine if needed by adding extra input</li><li>Happy with the result? Click “Create template”</li></ol>

See more Featured Feature videos

What the Learning Journey Advisor is meant to do vs. what not

<h3>What the Learning Journey Advisor is meant to do vs. what not</h3>The Learning Journey Advisor is a smart assistant designed to help you overcome the hesitation that comes with starting from scratch. It acts as a structured, intelligent starting point, giving you a clear outline of blocks and activities based on your input.It’s a time-saver: instead of staring at a blank screen, you’ll have something concrete to work from within minutes.It’s personal: the advice is tailored to your chosen topic, learning goals and audience characteristics.It’s flexible: once the template is generated, you can adjust, refine and enrich it with your own content and ideas.And most importantly: Note the word ‘assistant’. The Learning Journey Advisor is there to support you, not to take over. You’re still the expert, and your role as a learning designer remains central. Just like with cooking a recipe, you can still add your own flavours to it. It’s an advice, a guideline, something to help you get started and to beat the blank canvas fear.

<h3>Say goodbye to your blank canvas fear</h3>So do you ever find yourself staring at an empty template again with no clue where to start or do you just need some inspiration to improve an existing learning journey? Just call in the help of the Learning Journey Advisor.Feel free to try it out yourself. We’re always looking to improve, so let us know what you think!

Learn about more features

The Learning Journey Advisor is a smart assistant that helps you overcome the hesitation of starting from scratch by providing a clear structure of blocks and activities based on your input.

Beat blank canvas fear with the Learning Journey Advisor

AI for learning

Love to Learn Spotlight

Interview

Some people follow a clear career path, knowing exactly where they’re headed. Roy de Vries didn’t. At least, not from the start. Learning and development wasn’t something he had in mind growing up.“As a kid, I thought I might become a lawyer. Or maybe a psychologist,” he says with a grin. “Mostly because I liked talking to people, and let’s be honest, lawyers earn decent money.”But while his early ambitions pointed in other directions, the steps he took after secondary school tell a different story. From studying educational sciences to exploring online learning, his path may have been more intentional than it seemed at the time.

Meet Roy

After finishing secondary school, Roy packed his bags and became an au pair in Switzerland. For eight months, he looked after children, helped with schoolwork and got a taste of what it’s like to support someone’s learning up close.“I didn’t go there with some big educational dream,” he admits. “But the one-on-one connection with the kids… I really enjoyed it. It felt meaningful and it stuck with me.”It stuck long enough for him to start a degree in primary education, which he combined with educational sciences. But once he stepped into the classroom during his teaching placements, reality kicked in. “It just didn’t give me the energy I’d hoped for,” he says. “The system, the setting, it wasn’t for me.”

Roy once dreamed of strumming his guitar in a classroom full of kids. These days, his toddler mostly uses it as a drum. “Maybe one day we’ll take lessons together and start a father-son band.”

That father-son bond (or band)

What did fascinate him was how people learn and how you can support that process in smarter, more human ways.That curiosity led him to explore learning beyond the classroom. During his studies, Roy took on a side job as a community manager for an e-commerce platform, an experience that introduced him to the world of online community building. That’s when things started falling into place…

Finding his way to aNewSpring

<h3>Finding his way to aNewSpring</h3>During his Master’s degree Roy was an intern at an e-learning company and was given the task of entering multiple-choice questions into a learning platform. That platform? aNewSpring.“It was a small task,” he says. “But I liked how the system worked, how it was built. And I noticed the company used it in clever ways with their customers. That stuck with me.”

Roy’s journey with aNewSpring started with… entering 100 multiple-choice questions. An intern’s task? Definitely. A turning point? Absolutely.

Love at first sight

After graduating, Roy spotted a job opening at aNewSpring with the ambitious title Next Generation Digital Learning Expert. The title alone was enough to pique his interest. He applied, made it to the final round, but being fresh out of university, he needed a bit more experience under his belt to land a role like that.So he took a different path first. He started working as an Instructional Designer, where he spent about two and a half years gaining hands-on experience with online learning, learning management systems and collaborating with subject matter experts. It turned out to be the perfect environment to sharpen his skills and deepen his understanding of how to design meaningful digital learning.By the time a new opportunity opened up at aNewSpring, he was ready. This time, for the role of Customer Success Manager. And this time, it clicked.“I loved working directly with customers, helping them make the most of the platform. With my background in educational sciences, I could really add value.”

Roy used to play Bossaball (yes, that’s a real sport). It’s played on inflatable courts and trampolines, and his height (1.97!) really came in handy.

Like a boss

Stepping into innovation

<h3>Stepping into innovation</h3>After a few years, Roy felt ready for more. He noticed a new role being shaped internally: Learning Innovator. A chance to think more strategically about learning. To work closely with product, content and community. And to help define how aNewSpring talks about learning.“It wasn’t a pre-made job. There was no one else doing exactly this. That was exciting,” he says. “I could help shape what it meant.”His new role placed him at the intersection of learning theory and platform development. Part translator, part connector. From helping customers use aNewSpring effectively, he moved towards helping the company itself deepen its learning vision.

Cemeteries. “They’re peaceful. Full of stories. A reminder of what matters.” Roy visited them from Paris to Japan, not out of morbidity, but curiosity.

A slightly unexpected fascination

GROWTH: The penny drop - moment

<h3>GROWTH: The penny drop - moment</h3>And that’s exactly what he did. As a Learning Innovator, Roy tackled one big question: how can aNewSpring help improve training in a more focused way?He wasn’t the only one asking that question. Within aNewSpring, there was already a growing conversation about how to better support learning designers, sparked in part by co-founder <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/martendeprez/">Martèn de Prez</a> and then Learning Innovation Leader <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerdriesen/">Ger Driesen</a> (who, by the way, is someone Roy looks up to for his thought leadership and ability to connect people and ideas). Roy joined that movement with fresh energy and ideas, bringing his own practical experience from the field.“We’d always been about helping others help people learn,” he says. “But we wanted to give that mission more structure.”The initial idea was to create a maturity model: something that could tell training providers how far along they were in developing effective learning. But that approach didn’t feel quite right. “Learning isn’t one-size-fits-all. You can be ‘advanced’ in one area and still miss the basics in another. We needed something more flexible.”

The birth of GROWTHSo Roy and Martèn took a step back. They started exploring the central question: “how do people really learn?” and let the ideas flow. There were sticky notes on walls, plenty of back-and-forth, a few messy diagrams and a lot of thinking out loud. And slowly, patterns emerged, categories formed, and a model took shape. The GROWTH Training Improvement Model was born.“We didn’t plan the name. But as the pieces came together, they spelled out something: GROWTH. And it just worked. That’s what learning is, right? Growth.”

Find out what GROWTH stands for

The GROWTH model isn’t about ticking boxes or climbing levels. It’s about reflecting, rethinking, and continuously improving training based on how people actually learn. “It’s meant to open conversations. To give people new perspectives. Whether you’re designing your first course or leading a whole academy, it’s a tool to help you pause, reflect and level up&quot;.

The learner who learns

<h3>The learner who learns</h3>Roy applies the same mindset to himself. Whether it’s reading research, collaborating with experts or seeking feedback after every session, he keeps his own learning active. “I can’t tell others to improve if I don’t do the same,” he says simply.Becoming a father gave that mindset even more depth. “You can spend your whole life chasing the next milestone: when your kid walks, talks, cycles. But then you miss the joy of what’s happening right now. Celebrate where you are. Reflect. And then keep going.”

Roy used to know everything about football players, from which foot they preferred to their club history. Test him during the next Love to Learn Experience!

A walking football encyclopaedia

Love to Learn Experience

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You want to improve your training, but where do you start?

You don’t have to change everything all at once. But you do have to stay open. Ask questions. Reflect. And keep moving. Roy de Vries explains how you can do that with the help of GROWTH.

Roy de Vries on why growth is not a destination, but a mindset

Love to Learn Spotlight: Roy de Vries

learning pioneers

Learning content

Learning design

You know how to engage a room. You’ve delivered training with passion, energy and expertise. But converting that classroom experience into an effective online course? That’s a whole different challenge.In a traditional classroom setting, trainers can rely on interaction, spontaneous discussions and real-time examples to get their message across. But when you take your PowerPoint and move it online, that dynamic often gets lost. And if you simply write everything out, you risk ending up with a digital textbook, not an engaging e-learning experience.To avoid that, you need to rethink your content, understand your learners and design your learning journey with intention. So, where do you start? Here are four common pitfalls trainers face when converting PowerPoints to e-learning and how to avoid them.

Why PowerPoint isn't enough

<h2>Why PowerPoint alone isn’t enough for e-learning</h2>Before we dive into common e-learning pitfalls and how to make your PowerPoint to e-learning conversion a success, let’s talk about why PowerPoint alone doesn’t work for online training. It has a few built-in limitations that make it less effective when delivering digital learning experiences.

<h3>PowerPoint turns the learning experience into a passive one</h3>PowerPoint just wasn’t made for active learning. Learners click through slides without doing much else, which makes it harder to stay engaged and even harder to retain knowledge. E-learning works best when learners are actively involved, not just passively reading or watching.

<h3>You can’t track learner progress</h3>PowerPoint has no functionalities available to track learner data, which means you miss out on valuable insights. There’s no way to see how your learners are doing, where they’re getting stuck, or if they’re completing your course at all. That makes it harder to improve your training or support learners who need extra help.

<h3>Updating content is time-consuming</h3>Need to make changes to your course? With PowerPoint, you’ll need to update slides manually. And if you reuse content across multiple documents or decks, that work multiplies. Most e-learning platforms, on the other hand, come with content libraries and reusable blocks that save you time.

4 common pitfalls

<h2>From PowerPoint to online training: 4 common e-learning pitfalls</h2>When moving from PowerPoint to e-learning, many training professionals fall into the same traps. Here are four of the most common ones and how to avoid them:

<h3>E-learning pitfall #1: Copying long chunks of text</h3>One of the easiest mistakes when you go from PowerPoint to online training is simply copying and pasting large chunks of text from your slides. It might seem efficient, but it often leads to low engagement and poor retention.

→ Here’s what to do instead:Mix up your formats Learner engagement is a challenge when it comes to e-learning. Switching up the format of your learning content is one of the best ways to help your learners stay engaged. So, in addition to text, think of ways to incorporate the following:<ul><li>Visuals (images, infographics, models) can help explain complex ideas</li><li>Videos can be used to tell stories or show examples</li><li>Podcasts let learners engage with content while on the go</li></ul>

Add in interactive elementsInteractivity is crucial to improve e-learning engagement. During in-person sessions, interaction happens naturally. With online training, however, you need to proactively plan for moments to keep your learners engaged. <a href="https://support.anewspring.com/en/articles/32261-which-questions-can-i-use-in-anewspring">Here are some simple ways to add interactivity</a> to your course that are supported by most learning platforms:<ul><li>Quizzes: Tests and quizzes help reinforce knowledge and encourage active participation</li><li>Drag-and-drop questions: Have learners move elements to the correct place to test their understanding</li><li>Hotspots: Provide interactive images where learners can click on different areas to get more information</li><li>Activating elements: Use tasks or simulations that require learners to think and apply their knowledge.</li></ul>However, there are more options available if you want to go beyond that. For example, with aNewSpring you can add even more interactivity with social learning activities like giving your learners the opportunity to respond to each other by incorporating non-scorable questions in the learning journey. Or you can let them focus on their own process by including reflection activities at the beginning and end of your training.

<h3>E-learning pitfall #2:  Relying on speaker notes</h3>PowerPoint was built to support what you say out loud. But in e-learning, there’s no trainer talking learners through each slide. If you just upload your PowerPoint speaker notes, you’ll end up with e-learning content that’s too long and too dense.

→ Here’s what to do instead when you’re creating e-learning content:<ul><li>Write in an engaging way: Understand your audience well and tailor your content to speak to them.</li><li>Cut, cut, cut: Eliminate all unnecessary words and sentences to keep your text as brief and clear as possible.</li><li>Keep it short: Use short paragraphs and plenty of white space to make your text easy to navigate and improve the overall reading experience.</li><li>Coherence principle: Include only relevant images, words, and sounds to avoid distractions and ensure your message is communicated clearly.</li><li>Personalisation principle: Understand your audience well and tailor your content to speak to them. Address them in a friendly and informal manner, as if you are speaking to them personally.</li></ul>

Join our free Mini Masterclass: Writing On-Screen Texts

<h3>E-learning pitfall #3: Using generic content</h3>When you deliver training in person, you can easily tailor your message to the room by adjusting tone, examples, and even body language. But in an online course, that personal touch can easily get lost. If your content feels too generic or abstract, learners will struggle to connect with it. And when learners don’t see themselves in the material, they’re far less likely to stay engaged or apply what they’ve learned.To make your e-learning feel relevant, you need to design with a specific learner in mind. Creating a learner persona or empathy map helps you understand who you’re talking to: what they care about, where they struggle, and what motivates them. This insight will help you write content, choose examples, and pick visuals that feel familiar and relatable to your audience.

→ Tips to personalise your e-learning:<ul><li>Create a detailed learner persona based on real characteristics of your audience</li><li>Use relatable scenarios from their daily work or industry</li><li>Choose visuals that reflect your learners (e.g. similar roles, environments, tools)</li><li>Avoid overly formal or corporate tone if your audience is more casual</li><li>Offer branching or adaptive paths based on skill level or learning needs</li></ul>

Dive deeper into the topic of adaptive learning

<h3>E-learning pitfall #4: Designing without purpose</h3>Even well-designed content can fall flat if it lacks structure or direction. Unlike PowerPoint or books, where learners can flip back and forth or rely on a presenter to guide them, e-learning requires a stronger sense of orientation. Without a clear path or progress indicators, learners can easily feel lost or unsure of what’s coming next.For example, one common mistake we frequently encounter is presenting learning objectives word-for-word at the start of a module. Research by learning expert Will Thalheimer shows this doesn’t always help and can even be counterproductive. Instead of listing objectives formally, try weaving them into the experience. Starting with a practical question or scenario gives learners a clear reason to engage, without spoiling their curiosity.

→ How to bring more structure and purpose into your e-learning course:<ul><li>Start with a simple, visual learning path or roadmap</li><li>Use checkpoints, visual indicators or messages to show progress</li><li>Replace learning objective lists with short, practical questions (“Can you...?”)</li><li>Keep each section focused on one clear goal or outcome</li><li>Use consistent formatting to make navigation easy and intuitive</li></ul>

Start converting

<h2>Start converting your PowerPoint into effective e-learning with aNewSpring</h2>Converting your PowerPoint into an engaging e-learning course comes with its challenges. It requires rethinking how your learners interact with content in a digital space.By avoiding the pitfalls we’ve covered and implementing the right strategies,  you can build e-learning experiences that are just as impactful as your in-person sessions.aNewSpring gives you everything you need to support this transition: features like content libraries to manage updates efficiently, tools that boost knowledge retention (like our <a href="https://www.anewspring.com/platform/memotrainer">MemoTrainer</a>™), <a href="https://www.anewspring.com/articles/ai-question-generator-feature">AI to help you generate quiz questions</a>, and in-depth <a href="https://www.anewspring.com/platform/powerful-tools-trainers">learner insights</a> to improve your training over time.Need help getting started? Our <a href="https://www.anewspring.com/services/training-improvement-engineers">Training Improvement Engineers</a> are here to support you in turning your PowerPoint into effective, engaging e-learning.

Margot Sprenkels

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Transitioning classroom training into e-learning comes with several pitfalls. It's crucial to maintain the interaction and dynamics of a physical class, even in a digital format.

From PowerPoint to e-learning: 4 pitfalls

PowerPoint to e-learning: 4 tips to convert to online learning

In Roy&#039;s Training Improvement Café, Roy de Vries, Learning Innovator at aNewSpring, explores how people really learn and what we, as training experts, can learn from that to keep improving our training.In this third episode of the Training Improvement Café, Roy talks with Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor, co-authors of <a href="https://trainlikeamarketer.com/">Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&amp;D Pro.</a> Together, they explore how marketing mindsets and methods can help learning professionals better understand their audience, personalise training, and move beyond one-size-fits-none learning.💡 Spoiler alert: Thinking like a marketer doesn&#039;t mean just &quot;jazzing up&quot; your courses.<h2>Watch the full episode below</h2>Just hit &#039;play&#039; or scroll down for the show notes and the full transcript.

Episode 03 – Bianca Baumann &amp; Mike Taylor on learning from marketingWhat happens when you mix marketing smarts with L&amp;D practice? In this episode, Roy talks with Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor, co-authors of <a href="https://trainlikeamarketer.com/">Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&amp;D Pro.</a> Together, they explore how marketing mindsets and methods can help learning professionals better understand their audience, personalise training, and move beyond one-size-fits-none learning.💡 Spoiler alert: Thinking like a marketer doesn&#039;t mean just &quot;jazzing up&quot; your courses.About Bianca &amp; MikeBianca Baumann is a learning strategist based in Toronto with roots in business education and a passion for designing campaigns that drive behaviour change. Mike Taylor is a learning designer with a background in digital marketing, known for his Friday Finds newsletter full of L&amp;D inspiration. Together, they believe L&amp;D can learn a lot from marketing…if we’re willing to listen.What you’ll learn in this episode:<ul><li>Why it’s a problem if your course needs to be “jazzed up”</li><li>What L&amp;D can learn from email marketing and digital body language</li><li>How personas and empathy maps help you really understand your learners</li><li>Why “go to Gemba” is still solid advice for L&amp;D teams</li><li>What to try first if you want to design learning as a campaign</li><li>Why “Compliance 101” might not be the best title for your course</li><li>How Mike and Bianca accidentally ended up writing a book together</li></ul>Resources &amp; inspiration📘 <a href="https://trainlikeamarketer.com/">Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&amp;D Pro</a> – by Bianca &amp; Mike📚 <a href="https://www.amazon.nl/-/en/Rory-Sutherland/dp/0753556502">Alchemy</a> by <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/">Rory Sutherland</a>📚 <a href="https://seths.blog/">Books &amp; blogs</a> by Seth Godin💌 <a href="https://mike-taylor.org/newsletter-2/">Friday Finds</a> by Mike Taylor📰 <a href="https://www.marketingprofs.com/">MarketingProfs.com</a>🏢 <a href="https://contentmarketinginstitute.com/">Content Marketing Institute</a>Quick tips to apply right away<ul><li>Start your next learning journey with audience interviews, not assumptions</li><li>Use headline tools (or AI) to craft more engaging course titles</li><li>Test small campaigns using tools you already have (like email)</li><li>Think beyond your LMS—learning can happen anywhere</li><li>Call it a pilot if you want to try something new without pushback</li></ul>Episode highlights[00:01:00] – Why learning needs a marketing mindset[00:10:00] – Why digital body language matters for L&amp;D too[00:13:00] – The mistake of buying tools before building strategy[00:16:00] – Personas vs. demographics and how to create them[00:18:00] – The training that failed because of a 64K connection[00:21:00] – Behaviour change starts with meaning, not more info[00:24:00] – Thinking beyond LMS: the electric vehicle expo story[00:27:00] – Using triggers like clickbait (ethically!) in learning[00:30:00] – How to get buy-in for new ideas: “yes, and…”[00:32:00] – Common resistance from L&amp;D purists and how to respond[00:34:00] – Why standing your ground takes time and confidence[00:37:00] – Inspiration sources and real-world marketing examples[00:41:00] – Bianca’s first learning crush: a situational leadership course[00:43:00] – Mike’s least favourite myth: learning stylesListen to the full episode:▶️ <a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/7qxB12oAlWC9eDvDSmSKL3?si=aHkUVvokRYy4eGsX0voGfg">Spotify</a>▶️ <a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-learning-designers-can-learn-from-marketing-with/id1812628730?i=1000715395706">Apple Podcasts</a>We’d love your feedback!What did you think of this episode? Do you apply any marketing ideas in your training design? Let Roy know via roy@anewspring.nl or drop him a message on <a target="_blank" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/roy-de-vries-/">LinkedIn</a>.📣 Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with fellow L&amp;D pros who want to make learning actually work.

Also watch Episode 02 about digital conversation simulations

In this episode, Roy, Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor discuss how marketing mindsets help learning professionals understand their audience, personalise training, and avoid one-size-fits-none learning.

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